Jan. 7, 2018, 12:01 p.m.admin : Damn, what a shitty day.
Jan. 7, 2018, 12:02 p.m.admin : 1. A 4chan troll (arnold) had an account before I disabled registration, spammed over 5000 messages over 30 minutes before I noticed and deleted his account.
Jan. 7, 2018, 12:05 p.m.admin : 2. A few minutes later, google suspends my account because of billing issues. 3 cards on file, all declined for god knows what reason. Decided to close the gcloud account and go back to digitalocean. Only problem? I did not have a recent backup of the database. Lost close to 500 of the most recent messages. Some very interesting conversations with Avaer.
Jan. 7, 2018, 12:11 p.m.admin : Will be implementing rate limiting shortly. 10 messages/user/minute
Jan. 7, 2018, 12:13 p.m.admin : On a positive note, the site held up very well in a mini stress test
Jan. 7, 2018, 12:21 p.m.admin : Will also setup automated backups of the db. The mvp was too minimum :(
Jan. 7, 2018, 1:29 p.m.Avaer : Oh dear
Jan. 7, 2018, 1:30 p.m.Avaer : I guess the messages broke your account limit?
Jan. 7, 2018, 1:30 p.m.Avaer : I don't think the value of this room is the tech, it's the people and the structure
Jan. 7, 2018, 1:30 p.m.Avaer : so maybe consider externalizing the tech?
Jan. 7, 2018, 1:47 p.m.admin : messages were not an issue at all, cpu went to max 15% and ram at 30% After the 5k message incident, everything was fine until google suspended by account because of declined cards
Jan. 7, 2018, 1:48 p.m.admin : the main issue was not having automated db backups.
Jan. 7, 2018, 1:57 p.m.Avaer : oh so just bad luck with the card?
Jan. 7, 2018, 1:58 p.m.Avaer : cuz I've had things cut off for overage, but never a bad card
Jan. 7, 2018, 1:58 p.m.Avaer : also yah I've been bitten by lack of db backups a few times
Jan. 7, 2018, 2 p.m.admin : yup, google doesn't communicate clearly regarding account suspension. I was literally talking to support and told them to give me 3 to 4 days to get it sorted with the bank.
Jan. 7, 2018, 2:01 p.m.admin : no more server issues going forward, proper backups, standby server + added credit on digital ocean account
Jan. 7, 2018, 2:03 p.m.admin : these 4chan trolls are such a pain, dude had an account which did nothing suspicious and starts spamming when no one's around. even had a normal username : arnold. rate limiting will make this place very unattractive for them
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:38 p.m.Avaer : that's almost all a small company is, in fact
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:40 p.m.Avaer : I'm more interested in finding the right audience
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:40 p.m.Avaer : most of my pivots have been because I realized I was serving an audience I didn't want to server
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:40 p.m.Avaer : serve*
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:41 p.m.Avaer : e.g. enterprise
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:42 p.m.ploggingdev : Did you blog about your pivots somewhere? Would be interested in reading about it
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:42 p.m.Avaer : I should
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:42 p.m.ploggingdev : How many pivots so far?
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:42 p.m.Avaer : well I've been doing startups on and off for a very long time
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:43 p.m.Avaer : and each one went through multiple iterations
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:43 p.m.Avaer : so I've honestly lost count
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:43 p.m.Avaer : probably somewhere around 10
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:43 p.m.Avaer : but not in a row
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:44 p.m.ploggingdev : All in the vr ar market or others as well?
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:45 p.m.Avaer : no, most not in VR/AR at all
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:45 p.m.Avaer : 10 years ago VR/AR was so crappy that it wasn't on my radar at all
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:46 p.m.Avaer : but I'm always shocked how much skills you learn in unrelated areas transfer over
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:47 p.m.ploggingdev : What were the most important skills you learned that transferred over?
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:48 p.m.Avaer : not so much a skill, but... detecting patterns in technology and people
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:49 p.m.Avaer : after you've seen coding frameworks come and go over and over you start to predict which way tech is headed and which bets to make
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:50 p.m.Avaer : and after you've seen employees and founders quit a few times you end up realizing it's gonna happen months in advance and prepare for it
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:50 p.m.Avaer : things like that
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:50 p.m.Avaer : it also helps to work at other companies and realize that a) they have the same problems your company will and b) the techniques they use to deal with it anyway
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:51 p.m.Avaer : there's a lot to say about this, way more than fits in a chat
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:52 p.m.ploggingdev : In web dev its always best to stick to the tried and tested frameworks, better than jumping onto the latest js framework
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:53 p.m.Avaer : I quite disagree
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:54 p.m.Avaer : history is full of crap being used for that reason, and then was completely overtaken by "dumber" things
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:54 p.m.Avaer : in a time when everyone was jumping onto angular, I was promoting ditching angular for React
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:55 p.m.Avaer : because I realized it made way more sense with where browsers were heading
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:55 p.m.Avaer : I haven't read the recent stats but I'm pretty sure it was the right bet
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:56 p.m.ploggingdev : What do you feel about all the js frameworks and hype around them? I feel like most are used unnecessarily. Of course there are very good use cases
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:56 p.m.Avaer : I think the hyps is an illusion
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:56 p.m.Avaer : hype*
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:56 p.m.ploggingdev : React is one of the most popular now
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:57 p.m.Avaer : the people who are actually shaping the future of web dev aren't the ones hyping these frameworks
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:57 p.m.Avaer : yeah seems like it @React
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:57 p.m.Avaer : I think WASM is a killer here
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:57 p.m.Avaer : so I actually think JS frameworks are a concept that will soon die
Jan. 7, 2018, 3:58 p.m.Avaer : you don't need a JS framework if you can compile anything and run it
Jan. 7, 2018, 4:05 p.m.ploggingdev : Yeah Wasm is interesting,
Jan. 7, 2018, 4:06 p.m.Avaer : two feature requests: 1) user is typing notifications, 2) audio ping on message
Jan. 7, 2018, 4:07 p.m.ploggingdev : Have you tried using other languages? I think there are experimental projects to support c and rust
Jan. 7, 2018, 4:09 p.m.ploggingdev : Feature requests noted. My mobile data got disonnected, so took a few minutes to get back online
Jan. 7, 2018, 4:10 p.m.Avaer : I wrote a procedural world generator in C++ and plugged it into wasm
Jan. 7, 2018, 4:11 p.m.Avaer : just the tooling sucks
Jan. 7, 2018, 4:11 p.m.Avaer : that's how you now a tech will be important tomorrow, basically :P
Jan. 7, 2018, 4:11 p.m.admin : yeah, still early days
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:15 p.m.admin : Invited a few people working on disqus alternatives to join the chat room for a conversation. Looking forward to it
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:17 p.m.Avaer : :thumbsup:
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:19 p.m.admin : I'm preparing some very interesting questions for them, if you have any questions or want to see specific topics discussed, post them here
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:34 p.m.Avaer : Ok I have one
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:36 p.m.Avaer : why is it that you guys all coalesced on these ideas (Discus alternative)? I see comments/chat being a very popular entrepreneurial idea and I'm very curious why that is
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:40 p.m.Avaer : Also, I've seen this trend for a long time now (at least 5 years) so there's clearly some persistent desire for entrepreneurs to make these kinds of projects -- trying to understand why that is
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:54 p.m.admin : great questions, looking forward to answers from others. As for me, no special attraction towards chat/comments. The reason I built hosted comments was simple : I needed comments for my blog and I disliked Disqus' tracking + forced ads. I wrote a little about the back story here : https://www.ploggingdev.com/2017/08/building-a-disqus-alternative-part-1--research/
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:57 p.m.admin : So we have a few questions for you, feel free to skip any that you're not comfortable answering. So can you briefly talk about your motivation for starting remarkbox?
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:59 p.m.russellbal : I started working on Remarkbox back in 2014 to solve a problem I had after moving my Wordpress blog to a static site.
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:59 p.m.russellbal : Static sites don't have comments and I knew my readers would still want to communicate with me so I started a search for the perfect embedded comment system to promote discussion.
Jan. 7, 2018, 5:59 p.m.russellbal : My research found products which would slow down my site, or worse, serve ads! That very day, I set out to build my own solution.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:01 p.m.Avaer : russellbal: can you go into more detail about the slowing down your site part? how did you measure this and how did you fix it with your solution?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:01 p.m.Avaer : hi adtac!
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:02 p.m.russellbal : It was obvious just by the increased amount of HTTP resource requests, I used the Firefox/Chrome developer mode to see the times with and without the comment integration.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:03 p.m.adtac : As for your question: my reasons were fairly similar. I read a blog post describing how awful Disqus was (fortunately, I never had the misfortune of having to add it on any of my websites). I figured I'd make my own that night and I had a working prototype in 24 hours. Posted it on HN and it blew up; had tons of people from all corners of the world contributing to the project.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:03 p.m.russellbal : Also just opting for facebook or google comments seems like giving more data into walled gardens.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:03 p.m.admin : Welcome adtac, great to have you here.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:04 p.m.admin : So what's the backend you guys are using?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:04 p.m.Avaer : adtac: looks like it's sponsored by DO. can you elaborate on that? are you an employee?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:04 p.m.adtac : Quick question: Who's who? I can see russelbal is the founder of remarkbox. I'm assuming admin is ploggingdev?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:05 p.m.adtac : @Avaer: nope, just someone who reached out to DO asking if they'd be willing to sponsor me. They obliged with enough credits to help me get started with server costs.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:05 p.m.adtac : the demo you see linked on the github page is running on their servers
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:05 p.m.admin : Avaer is a startup veteran, has a vr/ar startup. Super smart guy, gives me great advice all the time.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:06 p.m.Avaer : nah I just scour the internet for interesting discussions to absorb, I'm really a nobody
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:06 p.m.Avaer : adtac: make sense, sounds like win-win. always wondered how "sponsorships" like this work
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:06 p.m.admin : adtac you're using go for the backend?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:07 p.m.adtac : Yep, go for the backend, sqlite for the database, and no proudly no dependencies on the frontend
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:07 p.m.adtac : *and proudly :P
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:07 p.m.admin : russelbal, what about you? I remember you mentioning it's python based
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:08 p.m.russellbal : Yeah, Remarkbox was written with Python and I use the Pyramid Framework.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:08 p.m.russellbal : I've prototyped with both SQL backend and NoSQL
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:09 p.m.adtac : @admin: feature request: title bar notification ("(1) Bored Hackers") when new unseen messages are posted?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:09 p.m.Avaer : hahah
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:09 p.m.Avaer : I suggested that exact thing recently
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:09 p.m.admin : IMO there isn't much money in this space since most of it is ad dollars. Thoughts? Hardly anyone reached out to me for the paid plans. Most ask me to do consulting work, build out custom comment systems etc :(
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:10 p.m.Avaer : what do you guys think about the viability of open source frameworks as a business model foundation? I think it's a pretty open secret that nobody pays for open source, even if it's hosted
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:10 p.m.Avaer : heh similar question
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:10 p.m.admin : @adtac noted. This was a rough mvp, so it's pretty rough
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:11 p.m.Avaer : and yes I've been pulled into the consulting trap too (in the VR space)
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:11 p.m.admin : * This was an mvp
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:11 p.m.russellbal : I've never made any money directly from my Open Source.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:11 p.m.adtac : As much as I like free software, you're right, nobody would pay for something like Commento/remarkbox/hosted comments for possibly two reasons: they believe they can host it themselves (or) they are too lazy to set it up and want a quickfix solution.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:13 p.m.adtac : That's why I'm going with an "open core" model (a la https://sidekiq.org/). Most essential features will be open source, but there will be certain enticing features that'll be closed source. The open source edition will always be free (as in beer and speech), however.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:13 p.m.adtac : example of such a feature: oauth with google/github/whatever
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:13 p.m.Avaer : even open core as I understand it is a tough place
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:13 p.m.admin : when market leader disqus gets bought for $90 million, it's a bad sign for people intending to go the VC route (such as myself)
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:14 p.m.Avaer : yeah
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:14 p.m.russellbal : I think static sites in general are too niche to focus on for any "add ons", and the people who advocate for them can either make their own services/add ons and generally don't buy what they can make.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:14 p.m.Avaer : wordpress made it work didn't they?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:14 p.m.Avaer : they kind of control the ecosystem vertically though
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:14 p.m.russellbal : If I put 10% of my energy into a Wordpress plugin, I could have 10x'd what I make with Remarkbox.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:15 p.m.adtac : I should mention: I'm not looking to bootstrap this into a 500-billion dollar company :P I'm just thinking of Commento as a viable alternative that might eventually produce some nice income on the side.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:15 p.m.russellbal : People who acutally make money from their blogs are willing to pay money for plug ins.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:15 p.m.admin : There was another company which raised a large round of $20 million I think https://www.spot.im/ but it's business model is to sell user data and display ads
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:16 p.m.russellbal : Typically people who blog on static sites are not people who make money with their blog.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:16 p.m.adtac : I might apply to YC this summer (because why not), but that's pretty much. I will not be going in search of VCs.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:16 p.m.adtac : russellbal: right, that makes sense
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:16 p.m.Avaer : in my experience if you don't take YC seriously there is no point to apply
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:17 p.m.Avaer : and I have _some_ amount of experience with that
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:17 p.m.Avaer : though the application process itself is hugely valuable if you do take it seriously
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:17 p.m.adtac : well, I will be taking it seriously (they're the only startup fund I "trust", whatever that means); I just meant to say I don't have high expectations
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:18 p.m.adtac : It's super tough to get in, and I think I understand that
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:19 p.m.Avaer : the only times I got interviews was when I was already basically acting like I was in the YC program already
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:19 p.m.Avaer : (that's kind of what I meant by taking it seriously)
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:19 p.m.adtac : hmm, how exactly do you mean (by ?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:19 p.m.adtac : (by "acting like I was in the YC program already")?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:20 p.m.Avaer : following their advice
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:20 p.m.Avaer : which is all public knowledge
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:21 p.m.adtac : I've been binge-watching PG/sama's videos/office hours the past week :D
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:21 p.m.Avaer : things like not concerning myself with competitors, focusing on user wants, not doing "other things"
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:21 p.m.adtac : would a master's degree count as "other things"?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:21 p.m.Avaer : yes
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:21 p.m.russellbal : YC has an office below mine in SF.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:21 p.m.adtac : sigh :(
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:22 p.m.Avaer : cool, though I thought they were PA?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:22 p.m.Avaer : I think that's where I interviewed last time
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:23 p.m.adtac : got through (if you don't terribly mind me asking)?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:23 p.m.Avaer : no we didn't
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:23 p.m.Avaer : it was obvious very quickly
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:23 p.m.Avaer : chose a bad cofounder
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:24 p.m.adtac : well, I know I can't do that as a solo founder (which may or may not be a good thing) lol ^^
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:25 p.m.adtac : (although I'm woefully bad at the business side of things)
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:26 p.m.Avaer : yeah I recently ditched another founder because they weren't pulling their weight
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:26 p.m.Avaer : it's definitely true that doing it solo can be better than working with bad people
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:26 p.m.Avaer : also protip: being bad at business is a disease easily cured by just going out and doing it
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:26 p.m.Avaer : you kind of just have to get over the impostor syndrome
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:27 p.m.Avaer : I'm speaking at someone who felt in the same boat for a long time
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:27 p.m.Avaer : as*
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:27 p.m.admin : Sorry to interrupt the fascinating conversation. So what are some of the future plans with your projects? How do you plan to grow, make money?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:27 p.m.adtac : I have been chronically bad at "just going out", but lately I've been getting out of my comfort zone more often
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:27 p.m.adtac : apologies, maybe we can take the YC specific talk elsewhere :D
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:28 p.m.admin : no, no please continue
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:29 p.m.admin : I can ask the disqus questions later
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:29 p.m.Avaer : it's not so much about just going out I think
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:29 p.m.adtac : re my future plans: basically launch the service with as much feature parity as possible compared to Disqus, post on HN and cross my fingers :D
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:30 p.m.Avaer : the common advice in that case would be to launch first with a crappy thing, and not to build those features yet
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:30 p.m.russellbal : You are planning to make a SaaS version of commento?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:30 p.m.adtac : ressellbal: yes
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:31 p.m.adtac : Avaer: I was hoping to capitalise on the influx of users I might get in with a HN/reddit post
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:31 p.m.Avaer : yeah that sounds like a good angle
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:31 p.m.Avaer : but the post itself sounds like it would be more valuable than the features themselves
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:31 p.m.russellbal : From my experience HN people don't convert.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:31 p.m.adtac : I mean, if someone signs up, sees that I don't have moderation and leaves, they'll probably never come back
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:32 p.m.Avaer : adtac: those kinds of people wouldn't convert even if you had moderation
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:32 p.m.admin : You can disqus anything related to tech and startups including YC, that's the whole point of this chat room :) I actually talked to a few people from YC about hosted comments and they all had the same concern : market size. They felt it's not really VC fundable, more suited for bootstrapped companies
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:32 p.m.Avaer : heh I actually have an opposite problem on my side
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:32 p.m.russellbal : I'm looking to grow Remarkbox by possibly merging with competition.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:32 p.m.russellbal : : )
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:32 p.m.admin : russelbal, haha
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:33 p.m.Avaer : russellbal: how do you mean? cofounding with you guys joining forces?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:35 p.m.adtac : I can't launch now as I'm short of having a payments anyway. Stripe isn't available in my country (they just started private beta last month), and all other options are crap. I've been thinking about Stripe Atlas but $500 is WAY too much overhead for a startup at such an early stage. Might as well build more features in the downtime hoping Stripe launches public beta soon enough (they usually take ~6 months from what I researched about their entry into other countries through private beta).
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:36 p.m.russellbal : Avaer, or I could buy out and try to go long on it.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:37 p.m.Avaer : russellball: any interested parties?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:37 p.m.Avaer : adtac: that sounds really tough to run a startup on less than 500
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:37 p.m.Avaer : when I ran down to 5K I called it quits
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:38 p.m.adtac : poor undergrad student from a third world country here :D
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:38 p.m.Avaer : I come from a poor family
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:38 p.m.Avaer : my solution was to work in the industry and build funds
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:39 p.m.Avaer : as far as being a programmer, that's not really tied to geography too much
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:39 p.m.russellbal : Avaer, there are two possibilities in this channel, hehe
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:40 p.m.Avaer : what's your revenue like?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:40 p.m.Avaer : also what are your skills and commitment to continuing?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:40 p.m.adtac : Avaer: yeah, as of now, the industry is my backup plan unless I get into YC
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:41 p.m.Avaer : adtac: I hate to break the news but if YC finds out that's your plan (and they will) then your chances of getting into YC are basically zero
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:42 p.m.adtac : huh, I guess I should be prepared to go on in the summer and beyond even if I don't get in
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:42 p.m.Avaer : YC doesn't want people who need YC to do the idea
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:42 p.m.Avaer : that's like automatic rejection
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:43 p.m.adtac : right, understood; just a little scared to go on alone
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:44 p.m.adtac : I mean, I know that every startup has a risk associated with it
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:44 p.m.Avaer : scared of what?
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:44 p.m.adtac : of the fact that it'll fail, of course
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:44 p.m.Avaer : of course startups are risky, and it's the founder's job to take that risk and do it anyway, and accept the consequences
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:45 p.m.Avaer : that's almost the definition of being an entrepreneur
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:45 p.m.Avaer : everyone feels this way
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:46 p.m.Avaer : another thing that's a hard truth experience teaches: you are gonna fail, guaranteed
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:46 p.m.Avaer : some people just take the failures, get up, learn from them, and eventually succeed
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:46 p.m.russellbal : I disagree.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:47 p.m.russellbal : YC wants a specific type of entrepreneur
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:47 p.m.Avaer : I don't think I've met anyone who just straight up succeeded from the start
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:47 p.m.Avaer : they do indeed
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:47 p.m.Avaer : one that's focused on growth
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:47 p.m.russellbal : But their type isn't the only or even the best type. Being risk adverse is a smart move adtac
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:48 p.m.Avaer : I agree
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:48 p.m.russellbal : Now figure out what you want to do _and_ reduce the risk.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:48 p.m.russellbal : Thats how you win.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:48 p.m.Avaer : I don't think I've seen many examples of winning by reducing risk, at least in the SV scene
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:48 p.m.russellbal : If that means taking on VC or applying to a startup incubator, go for it, but there are other ways to reduce risk
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:49 p.m.Avaer : maybe in other places that's common but not in the valley
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:49 p.m.Avaer : I also agree about reducing risk though, and there are good ways to do it
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:50 p.m.Avaer : I just wouldn't do it by sidetracking the main goals I'm trying to accomplish
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:50 p.m.russellbal : Our ideas of building a comment system wouldn't fly in the valley, and yet we have three MVPs
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:50 p.m.russellbal : And we did it without risk.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:50 p.m.Avaer : I'm pretty sure the right variant of it would fly
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:50 p.m.Avaer : I also have done about 10 years of startup stuff with almost no risk to myself
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:51 p.m.Avaer : my view is that each failure is an investment in myself and my skills
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:51 p.m.Avaer : and this turned out to be true many times over
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:52 p.m.adtac : essentially, the way I see it, our solutions are to disqus what protonmail is to gmail; that's how I'm planning on branding Commento
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:52 p.m.russellbal : Reducing the impact of a failure, is inherently reducing the risk the failure imposes.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:52 p.m.adtac : but here's the catch: people might not be willing to pay for the privacy of *others* (ie. their readers)
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:52 p.m.Avaer : russellbal: agreed
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:53 p.m.Avaer : but the main way I see people try to reduce risk is to e.g. get a side job in addition to a main project and such
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:53 p.m.russellbal : You can fail more frequently if you reduce the risk, and therefor you can learn more.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:53 p.m.admin : Quick interruption, I'll probably be logging off sometime soon. I don't expect it, but there might be 4chan trolls with dormant accounts and might start spamming. If that happens, just close the page. By today or tomorrow I should have rate limiting and some anti-spam features, so don't forget to check back!
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:53 p.m.Avaer : lol ok
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:53 p.m.Avaer : later!
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:53 p.m.adtac : see ya!
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:54 p.m.admin : I'll be around for a few minutes :)
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:54 p.m.Avaer : russellbal: sure, just gotta be careful that your risk avoidance isn't damaging your main goal
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:54 p.m.Avaer : e.g. a second job in addition to your main project
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:54 p.m.Avaer : or school, or other such stuff
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:55 p.m.Avaer : it's not really my view, I'm just repeating others
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:56 p.m.russellbal : Thats because they want to maximize RIO as fast as possible, FOMO, Opportunity losses.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:56 p.m.russellbal : If its your money, or your lively hood risk is important.
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:58 p.m.Avaer : yeah, I wouldn't recommend doing any kind of entrepreneurialism if your livelihood is at risk
Jan. 7, 2018, 6:58 p.m.Avaer : that needs to be fixed before you do such a venture
Jan. 7, 2018, 7 p.m.adtac : in your experience: what version of a disqus alternative *would* fly in the valley?
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:01 p.m.Avaer : I don't have experience in commenting systems specifically
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:01 p.m.Avaer : but twists on stupid ideas fly all the time
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:01 p.m.Avaer : so I'm sure something as solid as a commenting system with a twist can work
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:01 p.m.Avaer : I mean... look at slack, it's just a chat room on the surface
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:02 p.m.Avaer : but it has all of the right twists for business
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:02 p.m.Avaer : (and it didn't even start as a chat room)
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:03 p.m.Avaer : the right version of these ideas tends to come about organically in practice
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:03 p.m.Avaer : it's not thought up
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:09 p.m.adtac : Avaer: would you mind if I contacted you over email regarding general startup stuff like this? I could really use some mentoring.
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:10 p.m.Avaer : I don't claim to be a good mentor, so you shouldn't trust me... but a@modules.io
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:10 p.m.Avaer : all I can promise is to be honest
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:10 p.m.adtac : Thanks! (Look ma, I'm better at social skills)
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:11 p.m.Avaer : yeah one surprising thing I learned is that if you just ask people are way more likely to help you than you'd think
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:12 p.m.Avaer : most people just never ask
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:15 p.m.adtac : Coming back to the topic: @admin and @russellbal: how much traction are you getting with your plans? I see that remarkbox offers 3 plans at $6, $4, and a business plan at $150. It looks like hostedcomments' pricing is similar to Disqus' at $10/mo, $29/mo, and $99/mo.
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:19 p.m.russellbal : Not a lot to be honest.
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:20 p.m.admin : A few people have contacted me about it, one business wanted to integrate it into their custom blogging software. No sales yet. A few people are using it for free but that's it. I actually plan to release an open source version when I get time.
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:21 p.m.adtac : will the open source version be a subset of the paid edition?
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:23 p.m.admin : I'll strip out all the SaaS specific code and release maybe, need to think about it
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:23 p.m.admin : not planning to limit the features too much
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:26 p.m.admin : adtac, you tried my software, what did you think about the experience? and Avaer what about you?
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:29 p.m.adtac : I didn't really test it too much, sorry. In my experience, a moderation board would be pretty useful. Other stuff like oauth would be nice touches. Also maybe the landing page could be cleaner I think (at least the blue-red-yellow coloscheme in the icons is a little jarring to my eyes).
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:30 p.m.admin : thanks for the feedback
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:31 p.m.adtac : also, a privacy statement wouldn't go amiss on a service that's focused on privacy :P
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:32 p.m.Avaer : I think my main impression was:
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:32 p.m.Avaer : it's ok, but I feel like I could do this in a weekend myself, and I don't trust this to stick around
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:33 p.m.Avaer : I still wouldn't want to do it myself, I would want to use it only after some big names/funding commits to it
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:33 p.m.Avaer : which I know is probably a frustrating answer to hear
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:33 p.m.Avaer : I think it's all about the messaging, not the tech
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:35 p.m.adtac : This has been fun talking to you guys, but it's getting pretty late over here, so I gotta leave. I'll drop by again later if there's another scheduled session (@admin will probably need to email me). Night!
Jan. 7, 2018, 7:37 p.m.admin : adtac, sure! I'll be inviting more people over the next few days, lots of interesting conversations to follow